tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post7281507919552169289..comments2024-01-04T04:31:00.481-05:00Comments on Mixed Race America: Repeating history with a difference (and a vengeance)Jenniferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-39383812202447284012008-07-21T13:33:00.000-04:002008-07-21T13:33:00.000-04:00Woops! Totally hit the wrong button accidently an...Woops! Totally hit the wrong button accidently and published Jarheadw's comments.<BR/><BR/>I don't know how to delete it after publishing so it should stand.<BR/><BR/>And Jarheadw, I'm so sorry that you are wasting your time sending comment after comment to me. Please--there are other things you can do with your time. I clearly trouble you--life is short--truly, go do something happy with your time rather than being frustrated by reading my posts and comments.<BR/><BR/>Or if this is how you enjoy yourself, then I'm asking nicely and respectfully for you to stop sending me comments that I am not going to publish.<BR/><BR/>Of course, it's pretty ingenious sending me stuff because you think I may accidently hit publish rather than reject.<BR/><BR/>But I will be more diligent now! And Jarheadw, go enjoy the flowers and plants and other happy things in life. Go spend time with friends and family. Go be happy.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-73039126710229938012008-07-20T22:08:00.000-04:002008-07-20T22:08:00.000-04:00Jennifer---I am thinking of HOW I can become a mem...Jennifer---I am thinking of HOW I can become a member of your Choir ?I hate wasting my time (and yours?)when realizing this is all a waste of time......YOUhave been through the brainwashing period of your life. Why don't you now--grow up--and face the truth !?jarheadrw<BR/> <BR/> JARHEADRWjarheadrwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10382031778109778945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-67389168740124208432008-07-20T11:04:00.000-04:002008-07-20T11:04:00.000-04:00Bob,Again, I think we will agree to disagree. I d...Bob,<BR/>Again, I think we will agree to disagree. I do not think that Malkin's arguments and my arguments in this post are the same--I'm relying on well established scholarship and journalism. You may feel The New York Times is poor journalism--it is your right to read other news outlets. I like The New York Times and I think it is a reputable news source. Certainly I stand behind my citation of Tetsuden Kashima and the DENSHO website as excellent sources of scholarship--and I stand behind Cynthia Fujikawa's short documentary and the analyses contained therein.<BR/><BR/>So I disagree that my assertion that there is a parallel between the racial climate of fear and hatred in WWII and the climate of fear and anxiety created by post 9/11 "war on terror" is tenuous.<BR/><BR/>I find racial slurs and ethnic slurs to be offensive and I should have banned jarheadw's comment -- but I know that there are some people invested in denying that racism was behind the Japanese American internment, so that was the one comment I wanted to let through as an example of comments I would not continue to let through -- it was a teaching tool if you will -- and it was also a good one to show that I don't appreciate slurs against European Americans any more than non-European Americans.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I really don't understand what you mean by not addressing your main concerns--and as far as private email communication goes, I think if you have something you want to discuss on my blog that's fine but I don't feel the need to continue private email communication with you.<BR/><BR/>I welcome your reading this blog and continuing to post your opinions. I sense that I do not share your pov all of the time--which is fine. But I think this thread's utility is worn thin--I also think that it's not helpful to me or this blog for you to write privately to me for pre-approval of things you want to write in this comment thread. As you can see, I've posted all your comments and will continue to do so so long as I feel they don't violate the sense of decorum.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate your readership Bob, but I am puzzled by your insistence that I'm not answering your questions or engaging with you thoroughly since in my opinion I am.<BR/><BR/>Again, I think we agree to disagree. You can continue to post comments on this thread, but it's really grown far afield from the topic of the Japnese American internment and the Enemy Combattant ruling, so I am done with these meta issues.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-20879509632609793322008-07-19T22:12:00.000-04:002008-07-19T22:12:00.000-04:00Had I made any mention of Malkin's v. your scholar...Had I made any mention of Malkin's v. your scholarship, you would have been correct. That <I>would</I> have been setting up a straw man.<BR/><BR/>However, there was no straw man. I compared her and your blog and your common techniques of constructing a full-blown, white-knuckled curtain-climb from one thin reed. In that aspect - speaking only to this post - they are identities.<BR/><BR/>Jarhead espoused (and I am curious why you ever approved such a screed, unless you wished to use him as a foil) a number of 'factoids' endorsed and believed by a significant number of ordinary people. <BR/><BR/>His are not the only both: factual and counterfactual bits & orts of alt-history, and continuing history believed and endorsed by significant minorities. Vice:<BR/><BR/>- Oswald was not alone.<BR/>- Armstrong did not really go to the moon.<BR/>- Gore really won.<BR/>- The CIA was behind 9/11.<BR/>- Americans systemically practice torture at Gitmo.<BR/>- The earth is really, really flat.<BR/>- etc.<BR/><BR/>My experience is that excessive PC-lockstep - i.e. dictatorial control of the language of discussion - impedes the free flow of ideas. So, yes, I tend to have less respect for those who are either intimidated or infuriated to incoherence by emotive words. <BR/><BR/>Your mileage may, of course, vary.<BR/><BR/>dos pesos ... was a jibe, of course, and perhaps a poor one, but I have other tools in my box besides a hammer and recognise all things that stick out are not nails.<BR/><BR/>I do wish to note that you have not addressed my significant points, either on this blog, or in our private exchanges.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12031176903794982628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-64064029198316623572008-07-19T19:51:00.000-04:002008-07-19T19:51:00.000-04:00Actually, it's a straw man argument to say that Mi...Actually, it's a straw man argument to say that Michelle Malkin and the blog Mixed Race America are alike because they each have their own pov to make their own points.<BR/><BR/>Of course every blog has its own pov to make their own points. The difference is that Malkin's book has no scholarly facts supported by any reputable academic sources.<BR/><BR/>Also, I detect, Bob, a certain *tone* about me "banning" certain povs?<BR/><BR/>Also, I don't know what you mean by "not to be racial"--are you worried that you will be perceived as racist? <BR/><BR/>I have to say that in parsing your comment I detect a lot of judgment (of the negative variety)--words like "lockstep" -- and I also disagree that there was anything in jarheadw's comment that warranted engaging with because he so clearly wants to be polemical for polemics sake.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I don't think that I'm saying that jarheadw is an idiot because he engages in racial slurs--quite a few intelligent people engage in racial slurs. I just don't like that kind of language on my blog and don't think there's a place for it here.<BR/><BR/>Again, if people don't like my policies or what I write, start your own blog or go to another one--there are plenty out there who have open policies and people can be as mean and nasty as they want. But that's not what I'm aiming for here. Civilized discussions, preferably without people baiting others for the sake of baiting.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-89885897451010128392008-07-19T14:05:00.000-04:002008-07-19T14:05:00.000-04:00Malkin writes and advocates with/from a POV, selec...Malkin writes and advocates with/from a POV, selecting and massaging facts and tenuous connections (no matter how random or outlier)to support her POV.<BR/><BR/>In that aspect, she is much like MRA; that she does not ban inflammatory posters is a difference.<BR/><BR/>The issue of getting sooooooo frothy and bubbly over non-PC lockstep language (as I see it)is that some widely-held, seriously-believed, fully understandable views are foreclosed.<BR/><BR/>The left tends, unfortunately but predictably and without fail, to equate offensive, pointed language as evidence of incompetent thought - both shame and pity - for gaining knowledge and insight is an abrasive process. <BR/><BR/>jarhead had some good points about the temperature and belief of the times, albeit not well developed, and obscured by his purposeful fire-starting and button-pushing.<BR/><BR/>my <I>dos</I> pesos (not to be racial, or anything, you understand)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10217937292028572626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-86757366296073820562008-07-19T12:29:00.000-04:002008-07-19T12:29:00.000-04:00Also, I don't know how many times I have to say th...Also, I don't know how many times I have to say this:<BR/><BR/>The ONLY ethnic group targeted for mass removal under Executive Order 9066 were Japanese Americans.<BR/><BR/>Also, Jarheadw, I should have banned your comment for use of inflammatory language towards Japaneses American, German Americans, and Italians Americans. Your use of ethnic slurs greatly offends me--as I'm sure it does others. I mean c'mon! "Kraut" and "Wop"??? You have to be kidding me. <BR/><BR/>We're living in the year 2008--the only reason to use those slurs is to make people upset or to actively offend.<BR/><BR/>Which makes me wonder why...why do you want to cause offense? I mean, I understand that you have a different perspective--it's not one I agree with, and personally it's one I find potentially dangerous.<BR/><BR/>But deliberately using ethnic slurs? That seems that you are just being mean. Why be mean? Why have so much anger in your heart? <BR/><BR/>And really, at the end of the day, why do you care so much about this period in history? I know why I care--I work on issues of race and I believe that the events of the Japanese American internment have repercussions that we are still feeling politically.<BR/><BR/>But why do you care? Or why do any of the people and sites dedicated to denying the Japanese American internment care so much about targeting blogs on the internet and using language of hate and misinformation?<BR/><BR/>Actually, I'm going to write about this because I think that it's something I've been wondering about for a while.<BR/><BR/>So thanks, Jarheadw for helping me get to my next post! And I hope that you have a good weekend--I mean that without any sarcasm. I don't think you are a bad or evil person. But I do hope that you have other activities and friends and family in your life that can fill the space of hatred that seems to be spilling over in the form of ethnic slurs and reading people like Michelle Malkin. <BR/><BR/>You may want to try reading something more politically neutral--how about EAT PRAY LOVE? by Elizabeth Gilbert. Or Barbara Kingsolver's latest book ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MIRACLE: A YEAR OF FOOD LIFE. Or a really wonderful book I just finished by Michael Chabon THE YIDDISH POLICEMAN'S UNION. They are all great books and may help you get to a better and happier place.<BR/><BR/>Or how about a classic like Tolstoy's ANNA KARENNINA? At any rate, take care of yourself Jarheadw--and if you would like to keep reading, great--I welcome you to enjoy this site. But I won't publish anymore inflammatory messages, especially ones that use derogatory language towards ethnic groups. I don't think my Italian and German American friends are going to feel good about seeing your hate speech any more than my Japanese American friends--and quite frankly, I think most people regardless of whether they are German, Italian, or Japanese American are pretty offended by that language.<BR/><BR/>I mean, c'mon--this site is so clearly lefty-liberal pc--you had to know that those slurs are going to offend.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-27272587274859553822008-07-19T12:16:00.000-04:002008-07-19T12:16:00.000-04:00Jarheadw,Michelle Malkin is not a great American--...Jarheadw,<BR/>Michelle Malkin is not a great American--she has spouted lies and malicious misinformation about the Japanese American Incarceration. Every reputable academic who studies the internment has laid waste to the shoddy scholarship in her book. In particular, you should check out the exchange by Professors Eric Muller & Greg Robinson. Their anaylses of all the misinformation in her work is thorough and supported by solid scholarship. And if you are looking for accurate scholarship, you should check out the works by Eric Muller, Greg Robinson, Peter Irons, Roger Daniels, and John Howard--all white men who have written brilliant analyses of the Japanese American internment (which proves that white allies in all fields are greatly appreciated).<BR/><BR/>Every reputable academic has disproved the significance of the MAGIC cables as related to the decision for the Japanese American internment. There have been thousands upon thousands of pages related to the decision incarcerating Japanese Americans.<BR/><BR/>The MAGIC cables were a recent disocvery in terms of a possible rationale for the internment (I believe they only came to light in the 1970s or 80s)--it did not factor into FDR and others' decision (read Greg Robinson's book). And it certainly did not influence DeWitt or Bendetsen--if it had, someone (someone reputable that is--someone who isn't invested like Michelle Malkin is, in spreading ideological lies based on half-baked ideas that are unsupported by any academic scholarship).<BR/><BR/>This is the last comment I'm allowing through that in any way maligns the scholarship related to the Japanese American internment or supports the position that the Japanese American Incarceration was justified. This site is not going to support this type of misinformation. In Asian American circles, the comments of someone like Jarheadw is somewhat equivalent to the Holocaust denialists or people who say the Transatlantic slave trade wasn't all that bad and that the numbers of slaves who died are exaggerated. There are plenty of sites that you can go to that will support the kind of perspective that believes that the Japanese American incarceration was justified. This isn't a point of debate, for me and many others. I'm sure I'm not going to convince you and you are not going to convince me, so we will agree to disagree--but I just want to make clear, any future comments that start to use Michelle Malkin's work or anyone else who supports the MAGIC cable rationale for supporting the racism of the Japanese American internment are not comments that will be published.<BR/><BR/>Anyone else who wants to argue for the Japanese American internment/Guanatano Bay parallels are free to post--and I can, of course, continue to agree to disagree with you or we can hash out certain details. Or, if you are so annoyed by my perspective, you can read another blog. After all, this is a free country and the blogosphere is huge so you shouldn't have a hard time finding a site that will agree with your particular perspective.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-63994520176266496992008-07-18T23:29:00.000-04:002008-07-18T23:29:00.000-04:00All that bleating and hand wringing about the WWII...All that bleating and hand wringing about the WWII displacement & west coast removad of the Japs,Krouts & wops, but NOT one word about WHY......Please--one of you, especially "Jennifer" check into the expose book MAGIC------all about the "widespread" espioage and short wave radio activity from within the Japanese communities to Japan and the Jap submarines off shore, that were torpedoing our ships. AND also NO mention that our Army and Navy both insisted on the establishment of the west coast "red" zone and the removal of all suspictous enemy nationals and their children..........from sight of our military bases and harbors......you people seem to deliberately fail to mention such truths....And another great omitted truth : Michellew Malkin is a truly great American patriot. jarheadrwjarheadrwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10382031778109778945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-76290572983445589362008-07-18T11:08:00.000-04:002008-07-18T11:08:00.000-04:00Bob & Spartakos,Thank you for leaving comments...Bob & Spartakos,<BR/>Thank you for leaving comments--I always appreciate dialogue, especially from those who don't always see things from my perspective!<BR/><BR/>Bob, I don't see the parallels as tenuous at all--to me they seem quite clear cut, but perhaps that has to do with how much research I've done on the Japanese Internment. I'm not nearly as well versed on the Guantanamo Bay detentions, but I have friends (who are attorneys) who are, and in conversations with them, it's clear that some of the legal precendents used date back very clearly to EO9066 and particularly the Hirabayashi and Korematsu decisions (which were never repealed at the SCOTUS level).<BR/><BR/>I do agree that the particulars are more nuanced--they always are. But fundamentally--at its most basic level--this decision of such broad and overreaching executive power is frightening and in my opinion, wrong.<BR/><BR/>As for your last observation about the New York Times & Liptak, quite frankly I just don't understand it. First of all, I don't agree that NY Times Reporting "sucks"--I think that it may, at times, lack certain things, but in general, I think that the reporting is solid. Reporting that "sucks" seems to be journalism that is so biased it makes no attempts to hide its prejudices or to try to back up its claims with solid reporting facts (and Fox News clearly comes to mind--Michelle Malkin in particular seems to fit this descriptor quite well--as in "I think Michelle Malkin sucks").<BR/><BR/>"thin, thin beer comparing ever more disfavourably to Greenhouse"???<BR/><BR/>You got me--I literally don't know what you are saying.<BR/><BR/>Spartakos,<BR/>I do agree that the particular case of Mr. Marri seems to not be so heart plummeting as the other split court decision. And I am keeping my fingers crossed for when it hits the Supreme Court. <BR/><BR/>Do I feel that his case, in particular, is an erosion of our civil rights...well here's the thing. I don't think we can look at Mr. Marri's case in a vacuum--and I think my basic point at the end of the post isn't that what happened to Japanese Americans are going to happen to Chinese Americans or Lithuanian Americans or Muslim Americans in the same way.<BR/><BR/>BUT...if you talk to Muslim and Arab Americans in this country, there are VERY COMPELLING parallels to the climate of fear, anxiety, intimidation, anger, and frustration that they are living with NOW post-9/11 and a similar climate during WWII with Japanese Americans.<BR/><BR/>This is what I mean with history repeating with a difference. It's not going to look the same. We aren't going to make the same, exact, mistakes in the same way.<BR/><BR/>But a climate that is distinctly prejudiced towards Muslim and Arabs (American or otherwise), public opinion that does not seem troubled by torture at Gitmo or abroad in Afghanistan and Iraq, and men being held at Guantanamo who got swept up in raids across the nation and across the Middle East who are not terrorists but are ordinary men just trying to live their lives who may have a similar name to someone on a terrorist list or whose sister's brother's neighbor is a terrorist and therefore they attended a party with them once and gave them a ride home, or as in Fujikawa's film, a mother and daughter who had dark faces and Arab surnames.<BR/><BR/>It's not a slippery slope to think that the use of race connected with racial profiling and fear/anxiety that happened during WWII is happening now--it is, in my opinion, what is actually happening.<BR/><BR/>And that should make all of us worried. Because we should never promote or accept a climate of fear, anxiety, and inimidation connected with racism and racial profiling--and added to the god-like power of the executive branch to detain someone for an indefinite time without showing just cause...that's simply frightening and Orwellian to me.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-18603703517995214852008-07-17T19:49:00.000-04:002008-07-17T19:49:00.000-04:00After reading the article, I have mixed feelings. ...After reading the article, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I agree with you that the President should not have the authority to indefinitely detain civilians, simply on the executive branch's say-so. That said:<BR/><BR/>1.) Mr. Marri is not being held incommunicado or without opportunity to challenge his detention...he has apparently alread done so, and the 2nd paragraph of the article says he will have another opportunity. Granted, this is not due process by a jury of his peers, but I don't know enough about the case to know whether such a thing is guaranteed to Mr. Marri (is he a citizen? a foreign national? Immigrant?).<BR/>At any rate, it's not star chambers and secret prison.<BR/><BR/>2.) He still can (and apparently is) appealing to the SCOTUS, which may overturn the decision...that's due process, of a sort.<BR/><BR/>3.) The article pointed out that Mr. Marri is the only person on the American mainland being held in such a manner. That's hardly a sweeping use of these powers.<BR/><BR/>4.) This statement did trouble me: "The five judges who ruled that the president has the authority to detain people captured in the United States offered differing criteria for who might be subject to such detention." I think we need a clear-cut definition, limiting the scope of these powers.<BR/><BR/>In summary, I guess while I'm not comfortable with this ruling as it stands, I don't feel it represents a major erosion of our rights (I don't agree with the statement of Mr. Hafetz, for example). And I don't feel it's comparable to the travesty committed against Japanese-Americans during WWII, because of differences in scope (number of persons affected) and severity (degree to which they were mistreated). I just don't feel the slope is that slippery.<BR/><BR/>(all of the above is not to say that you are incorrect; merely explaining my differing opinion. And we do agree on some aspects.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1658138279766595241.post-40850758298824374862008-07-17T13:17:00.000-04:002008-07-17T13:17:00.000-04:00While your parallels are interesting - if a little...While your parallels are interesting - if a little tenuous - the decisions (there were two) are quite a bit more nuanced than you (and Liptak) portray. al-Mari's case is on fast-track to the SC, and involves a pretty important due process question for which there is little precedent and less case law.<BR/><BR/>NYT 'Standard' POV reporting sucks, anyhow, and Liptak is thin, thin beer comparing ever more disfavourably to Greenhouse.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12031176903794982628noreply@blogger.com